Straight Talk with Mark Bouris

00:00 Mark Webber, mate, this is unbelievable. Great opportunity for me. 00:04 Welcome to Straight Talk. 00:05 Great to be here, mate. 00:06 I can't believe that I'm sitting in front of you, but anyway, or you're sitting in front of me, however you want to put it. Amazing. It's just amazing. Well, I mean, we just had a little pre-talk about a whole lot of stuff, and I wish we had recorded it. Don't worry. We'll cover it. We'll cover it. He didn't say anything. He didn't go off-piste, but he will. 00:27 You're... 00:30 I was just walking up here and I ran into a sporting journalist. 00:36 And he said to me, I told him that I was going to do an interview with you, and he said to me, oh, he was a ball boy for the Canberra Raiders. And that's quite interesting, given how famous you are today and all the crazy stuff that you're noted for. 00:50 Yeah. 00:51 If we go back to Mark Webber, the ball boy for the Canberra Raiders, can we go back to that in Coimbean? Of course we can, yeah. Because I think no one knows that stuff. Not many, no. 01:02 Look, I know you're a big league guy, mate, and so am I. I watch it all still to this day. You're still a Canberra Raiders supporter? Yeah, absolutely, yeah. You know, watch Ricky's guys. But, you know, I was very lucky. It was actually a bit of a fluke probably from my old man. Like dad knew at the time a guy called Mick Doyle, who was the coach of the under-21 side then, and said, oh, you know, maybe the loose weekend for Mark to come out and do a bit of ball boy. How old were you, Rick? Oh, mate, I was actually, it's interesting. I was actually old for a ball boy, which was bloody important. And I'll get into that. But the, I'm talking like 13, 12 or 13. 01:35 So we were like mid-80s. 01:36 Yeah, 13. 01:38 A bit older, 14, yeah, probably because we did the grand final with the Tigers, you know. So, but I think, so under-21s reserved, $10 a match, took a $30 a weekend, which was bloody wicked, you know, so that was cool. 01:51 They paid you? 01:51 Yeah, money, I think, mate. They got a little bit of money, I think, yeah. 01:54 That's good blooding. 01:55 Yeah, exactly, yeah. So, but I think, and I look back on that when you say looking back, mate, it actually was really good for me to see, you know, because when, mate, I was seeing... Mal, Laurie, Ricky, Clydie, Lazo, half the Australian team. Stacked side. Yeah. Totally stacked. Oh, mate. Phenomenal. Sheen's your coach. 02:19 And to take the sand out to Mal every weekend – 02:22 Because it was sand those days. 02:23 Sand, not the tee. Yeah, not the tee. So take the sand out to Mel. 02:29 But what was funny, one match, we stopped a match once at Canberra there because what Sheenzy used to like us to do was when they kick for touch, when Ricky would kick for touch, Steve Walters would obviously take the tap and then have someone on the run get the momentum. But our job was to put the ball at the touch judge's feet where Ricky would have kicked out. So the ball goes out, touch judge puts his flags up, stands there, you go and put it straight there. Yeah, bang, and then Chicka Ferguson would come pick it up or someone or Mullows or something like that. But I would do a monster forward pass direct to Boxhead, to Steve, Walters. 02:59 Yeah, Walters. Yeah, and to get the run on. And the touch, I'd just fume it. 03:03 So you were sort of- That was the brief. Yeah. So don't put the ball on the, touch those feet. No, we want to win that. Put it straight to him. Five seconds, mate. Yeah. Bang, and then they're off. And we were part of the strategy. 03:11 Oh, that was part of the strategy. Just to give the inertia. Don't change. Don't, you know, if we can get it straight into, onto the tap. 03:16 Did you understand the point of that at the time? Yeah. 03:19 When you were a kid? Well, I was told, of course, I was shitting myself. Yeah. I'll do it. Yeah, I'll do it, mate. I'll do it. 03:24 Could you reach him? 03:25 Yeah. And I was pretty, I had a little, a little pass on me, mate. So. 03:28 Well, you're pretty tall. I mean, you're very tall for a race car driver. Yeah. But like, were you tall then? Yeah. 03:34 No, I was pretty late actually growing up, like in terms of my spurt, I suppose. Were you playing footy? Yeah. 03:40 Mate, I played everything. I loved a bit of tennis. I loved golf. I loved AFL. I loved playing and rugby league. So I was a jack of all trades and legend of absolutely none. I loved having a go. 03:50 But that's the experience though, isn't it? Like being competitive, naturally competitive? Absolutely, mate. Absolutely. And I was so lucky looking back to grow up in Queanbeyan, you know, because it was a small country town, you know, and sports was big. And our family was big into that. My mum and dad liked sports and having a go was... 04:08 was really important. So, were they encouraging you? Sure. Sure. You know, mum would take me to a swimming club. Oh, really? So, those Wednesday nights in Queenbeam, that's fresh, mate. Yeah, that'd be very cold. Is it outdoors? 04:19 Yeah. 04:20 Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I think that little athletics, like all that stuff, you know, because school for me was – Wasn't that easy. I was a bit of a rogue, and I enjoyed, you know, sport more than, you know, and I liked the social scene of school as well, but I really enjoyed sport, and that was my passion really, mate. 04:44 When you were growing up, did you ever think to yourself, I'm going to be a race car driver, or did you ever watch it? I mean, was it a thing? Of course. I think my dad had a huge influence on me, no question about it. Oh, really? My dad loved it. 04:56 Sir Jack Brabham. Wow. Sir Jack Brabham was dad's hero. That's going back a while. Exactly. So Sir Jack was racing at Warwick Farm and some of these tracks in New South Wales. My dad would hitchhike from Queenbin to go and watch him race against the likes of Sir Jackie Stewart and Jimmy Clark, all these legends from Europe, all these Formula One guns. And that, of course, was blended into me over time as a young lad because I grew up riding motorbikes when I was young on the farm and that was important for me to sort of have the... 05:26 Thank you. 05:27 bit of the speed component early, which I just enjoyed. There was no... Dad wasn't forcing me to do it. I just enjoyed riding the bikes. At speed? Sure. Yeah, of course. And I think that with motorbikes, you have the accountability and consequences are quite... You learn them quite quick, you know, because you've got the throttle. There's no training wheels, mate. Off you go, son, and, you know, have a crack. So I think that was... Dad had the motorbike shop in Queanbeyan. So really, you know, being in motor racing... 05:57 sphere, let's say. It was sort of on my doorstep and the go-kart track was local. So that was super... You had a go-kart track? 06:02 That was so local. Not I didn't, but there was a go-kart track. No, but that was one there. Yeah, that was so lucky. I mean, I would never, ever have been... 06:08 If Dad didn't like Sir Jack and there was no go-kart track, it was not happening. So, you know, there's those moments where... 06:14 And then once I bought a go-kart and I started enjoying racing the go-kart, then all the other sports dropped away. And I think at that point, I then got an absolute addiction. It was a total addiction. So you were racing go-karts? Yeah. 06:30 So it was a disease. At that point, it was a total disease. I was gone. 06:33 Did you just sort of ignore schoolwork and stuff like that at that point? 06:35 Did you think I stuffed this, I'd rather be out there in my go-kart? Of course. Practicing? And I was designing helmets and drawing tracks and stuff like that in class and just stuff that I could, you know, so I just was transfixed on. As in obsessed? Totally obsessed. Absolutely obsessed. It was all-encompassing for me. So that was... 06:52 16, 17, and then I went into car racing. So that's when I started to, karting was okay for me. I loved it, but I was a bit big. And also dad was clever because he knew deploying, we didn't have infinite funds. He's like, you know, you need to pull a little bit back because it's a bloody expensive sport. 07:09 to give me a chance in car racing which was more expensive but that was and if you're not quick in cars like there's no point being a freaking go-kart if you can't go up the staircase to go towards ultimately which is which is formula one but you reckon the old man actually thought to himself i'm going to take him through each of the stages like i got him a go-kart he obviously does on a license but i'm now going to put him in a car because you can get a do you have to have a license to race a car 07:32 Race, yes, a go-kart. So when you compete, you need a license. You need a license for a go-kart. Yep. And obviously then when you race a car, therefore you must also need a license as well. Like a license to race or a license to drive on the road? 07:46 You can race before you can drive on the road. Is that right? Yeah. 07:49 Yeah. Yeah. So, were you racing before you could illegally drive on the road? Yeah. What, a 17 or something like that? 07:56 Yeah. So, yeah. So, yeah. And that does happen. And even, I think it's even younger in New Zealand. So, some of the kids are racing super, like racing, like on a racing track. 08:05 So, what was your first race car? Was it a Toronto? 08:07 Formula Ford. So, single seater. So, I was always in a single seater car. So, very rarely did I race a, what we would call a, like a touring car or like I say, a road relevant street car. So, I was always racing bespoke single seater cars. 08:19 So, that's a car with one One seat, just a driver's seat. 08:21 And open wheels. So very, yeah, because my dad was always, he loved single seater racing. So I was very much on that train of thought that, you know, the best drivers are in single seater racing. It's more accurate. You've got to be very accurate in open wheel racing because it's, the wheels are exposed and sort of the lines and everything is just a lot more precise. 08:41 So anyway, that was what. 08:42 But did you have someone to teach you that stuff? I mean, like, I mean, how do you become good at that? And by the way, were you good at that? 08:48 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's an interesting one. I had – you get some mentors along the way, you know, early door, like hopping into a car, you know, the first time you do that, which was actually at Oran Park, which is now, you know, not there anymore. It's full of houses. But that was the first time I drove a racing car and I just was thrown into that. But there was a bit of a scout there, a guy that was – And trying to validate with my – well, my dad was trying to validate with him. Is he going okay or is he average? Because this is a big decision for my family and for me and like where we're going to go with this. 09:19 But it was actually structured though. 09:21 Yeah. Because dad was actually thinking like there's a process here. Yeah. It was a test drive. It was like just a little test drive, like baby steps. And it was like, okay, that's a milestone. He's done well there. He's doing well there. Maybe we can go into competition. And then obviously it just – continued so I was sort of going through these gateways of sort of dad accepting that this is something we can do and of course I've the buy-in from me has got to be big like of course I'm hungry for it it's not his you know it's a bit of an extension of his love of course but I have to be able to then show him how committed I am as well because it's But I have to be committed, you know, and that – Do you think it was strategic from your dad? 09:55 I mean, when you think back at it, like, that's pretty out there, like, for a dad or a mum or both of them. Obviously, mum was supporting all this. But, like, for someone to think about this in such a strategic way, you know, and here he is, a humble motorbike guy who fixes stuff up. Like, pretty humble. Yeah, very. Living in Coimbean. He's got his son. Where do you sit in the family, like, in terms of kids? 10:18 Yeah, I've got one sister. She's two years older than me. 10:21 Okay, so he's a young boy, the younger kid in the family, and he's thinking to himself, well, I'm going to take him through each of the stages. You probably didn't realize where he probably had his dream. 10:31 Of course not. Of course, at that age, you're not. And even I look back now and I say, Dad, what were you thinking taking me to that track or doing that at that age? 10:38 It was madness for the experience I had. But, of course, he was big on just keep putting in deeper water. 10:46 A little deeper, just a little bit. Of course. And you want, of course, to be at that age, you want easier competition because you want the trophy and you want to win. But it's like sometimes you've got to be put into more difficult situations to test your character. 11:01 Did you see that way, Mark? Or was it more transactional? Not at the time. 11:05 I've got to win this race. Yeah. Yeah. Well, of course, when you're younger, you want to, of course, progress naturally. You can't just sit in where the competition's soft. You want to continue to test yourself. But obviously, he knew more than I did because it was 16 or 17. You don't know much. Yeah, you think you do. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you think you're an expert, but you haven't got much of an idea. So he was, of course, just strategizing very, very, you know, You know, just to sort of work and not going too hard and, of course, getting advice on the way. 11:36 He needs to get advice. Did he get outside advice for you? 11:39 Well, there's a great touring car driver in Australia called Jimmy Richards. 11:43 And once at Malala, I was driving a car in South Australia and Jimmy went to see dad on the bank. He was just watching me drive around. And my dad loved Jimmy Richards as we all do. He's a frigging absolute legend of our sport and really just a great guy and like no agenda, just like straight up. And he just went to dad and said, you're way generous with his ideas. Great. 12:06 And he just said, Mark's wasting his time here in Australia. Really? He's got to go overseas. 12:10 Well, what was the thing behind that? Just, again, go. 12:15 He's got to go and test himself against the best. Like, we can race here in Australia, but this category, like Formula Ford and these formative categories, the hotbed, all the big guns are in Europe. So he said, I would advise you, Alan, to give that a go. 12:34 Because he must have recognized that there's a potential in you and also must recognize that your dad and you might have wanted you to have a career in this at this stage. 12:42 Yeah, of course. Now, it's getting serious, of course. That's sort of 1995 period when you're racing at the sharp end in Formula Ford racing, which is the first step out of go-karts, really. But still, they're pretty quick cars and it's getting serious. But for someone like that to give dad the validation, when we're on the right track... 13:00 And two, you know- There's more to him now. Give him a chance. Give him a chance to go overseas. Which, of course, in our little world, you're like, maybe, not sure, whatever. That's a big step. 13:08 Yeah. Yeah, it was great. It was great to the gym. Did you? Did you? 13:10 Yeah, it went. Yeah. So, 96, I went. End of 95, I went to Europe and- I had that work. 13:17 I mean, like- I've never come back. 13:18 I had that work. Like- Well, I went over there and did a test drive for the works team, which was called Van Diemen at the time. And that went brilliantly. And then they said you can do a race. It's not an invitation race, but it's the biggest Formula Ford race in the world, the Formula Ford Festival. 13:38 Do they give you a car? 13:40 So Yellow Pages in Australia sponsored me for that race, which was amazing. So Yellow Pages sponsored me all through my, well, my junior, some of my junior stuff here in Australia. And then they said, we're happy to support you, which was 5,000 pounds for the week. I had to get 5,000 pounds in 1990, in October 95. 13:54 Yeah, the UK pounds. Yes. 13:56 There was 33p to the dollar then. 13:58 Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a lot of money. 13:59 I know you're a numbers man, mate. A lot of money. Yeah. So it was, yeah, it was, you know, we, you know, it was- We had to do it. Yellow Pages are amazing. So we did that. And then I got a really good result straight up, which was just- What's that mean? Top three in a, like there was 120 in the field. Right. So I finished in the top three, first time on the track, first time in that category. So that was, and then the boss said, mate, you're coming back next year. This is the bloke that owns the whole factory team. And his name was Ralph Thurman. He said, you're coming back next year, subsidized drive. 14:28 It's 85,000 quid, but we're paying half and you can bring the rest, which Yellow Pages did. Wow. So- 14:35 So just give me a bit of sense of this. So how old were you? Like 20? 14:41 Yeah, there. What are we? Yeah, 20. 14:43 So you're 20 and you arrive in a place. 19, 19, yeah. And you arrive in Europe. Whereabouts in Europe are we talking about? 14:50 So that was Norwich. In the UK? Yeah, East Anglia. Yeah, okay. 14:54 So you're in the UK and you've never been on this track before? No, no. Do you walk the track? 15:00 How do you know where the hell are you going? It's a great question, mate, because now there's a lot of simulators, right? So all this offline... 15:07 virtual world we have now in racing that the guys use, but there was, of course, none of that then, you know. So, yeah, have a walk around, have a look at it. 15:13 Literally a walk. 15:14 Yeah, have a walk, but then you just got to get in the car. 15:17 Can you have a little test drive? No. No. 15:20 No, because there's three or four or five people in your team. Like, already, these are little baby cars, nothing like F1, but obviously it's already, you've got a team. These, these cars need to be organized and prepped up and set up and, you know, they're pretty, they're nice little bits of kit. They're gorgeous, you know, little bits of jewelry and you've got to take them out there and get into them. So, you can't go and get an old Fiat and rent. No, the track is, it's pretty hard. It's sacrosanct. Yeah. Pretty hard to get on it. So, Yeah. 15:47 Any surprises? Can you remember that day? 15:50 A lot more intense. A lot more intense. So the racing was a lot more cutthroat. You know, it's just another- Like ruthless. Exactly. The depth, ruthless. All of a sudden, I'm, you know, on the grid with Colombians, Mexican, you know, Frenchies, German, like there's just every nationality, you name it, they were on the grid. Yeah. And it was just, and the precision, just how close they'd run you to the fence and how- Oh, really? 16:11 So just a lot tighter. Putting pressure on you? 16:13 Yeah, of course. 16:14 Are they actually putting pressure or are they just trying to get ahead of you and that creates pressure or are they saying, let's stuff this bloke up? 16:19 Intimidation as well. Really? More contacts. More contacts. Oh, they're actually touching you. In Australia, there wasn't much of that. It was a bit more after you, sir. Yeah. Still solid, but like over there, it was just different gravy straight away. Yeah, we're going to win. But you know, this is, yeah, these guys are on. And the depth is so, you could have three or four sharp guys at the front here. Over there, you've got 20. 16:41 Sharp got like really good operators, you know, so. 16:43 How fast are you going? On that track, it's not that quick. 16:47 Oh, it's 220K, you know, like, you know, that's only a 1600 engine, but it's, you know, it gets along. But that was, yeah. 16:53 220 is pretty quick. Yeah. 16:54 Yeah. 16:55 I mean, I have no stories in relation to this sort of stuff. We should do a track day one day. I have done it, Mark. You've done it, okay. I have to tell you what happened there because you're going to laugh at me, right? Many, many years ago, it was in 2004, 2005, my son, I bought an Aston Martin DB9 because they just got released and I don't know why I did it. I still got it actually, but I wish I hadn't ever bought it. But anyway, it doesn't matter. And my son, my dad, my oldest son, he said, let's go out to a track somewhere in Sydney. I don't remember where it was. And there's a whole lot of people going out there. And he said, let's go for a drive in it. And I said, oh, okay, cool. 17:26 And so I did one lap. And he said, dad, let me take you. And he was driving Mitsubishi Evo at the time. And he was racing it a bit. Oh, my God. I was so scared. And I started yelling and screaming at him. 17:39 I said, mate, stop the fucking car and let me out now. 17:42 And he was just laughing and just going faster and faster. It terrified me. So I don't know where you get the, I don't know, is it testosterone or the adrenaline or my cortisol was out of control. I don't understand, Mark, like how you control your sense of fear or is it in your case, there's no fear, it's just adrenaline. 18:02 Well, you go on a journey of your skill set. I think when you get more and more experience, you get highly skilled. What about back then when you were 19? Then, yeah, you're raw. You're raw. It is definitely... Of course, you have this... Is it nature or nurture? How do you just get half good at something? Apparently, it turns out that some things come more natural to you than maybe others, and you just, of course... 18:31 take that for granted, I suppose, in some ways. So for me, it was more... It's not... They think about racing drivers as adrenaline junkies. 18:38 We're not really... Because I was one to know that. 18:40 Is that not true? No, we're not really... At least for me anyway, I don't feel I'm an adrenaline. People would think if you do 370k an hour in a Formula 1 car, you're craving for... The rush. Yeah, the rush and endorphins and things, but... 18:56 So it's more of the accuracy and the precision and the testing yourself and applying all of your skills at the point in your career, of course, because the most experience you have, mate, is the day you retire. Yeah. That's when you've got the most experience. Exactly. So you're trying to obviously – and that's when you've got people helping you and guiding you along the way because, of course, you're making so many errors when you're – younger. But I think that the experience blended with your, just that sheer enthusiasm and passion. You know, you've got that flamboyancy, you know, you're so ignorant as bliss, isn't it? 19:29 You're so confident. Enthusiastic. You're so confident. Yeah. You know, and you're borderline reckless. You're making some mistakes here and there, but that comes, and then the polish, being polished comes, getting more, you know, articulate, and the word, of course, consistency. You know, you've got so many people on this podcast, man, who come in sport and and that's what they have to be able to do, right? Yeah. You've got to be consistent. Ultimately. You've got to be delivering all the time. You've got to be able to defend your position. Yeah, exactly. 19:56 But even accurate with your lap time, you see someone like Rafa or Roger, in our situation, that's repeating the same lap time all the time at a high level or a golfer, driver down the middle or whatever. In our game, it's doing the same lap time very metronomically. 20:13 So it becomes mathematical. Elite sports people can do, I think, is that's what they're looking for, right? They want to have that, you know, the mistakes factor. 20:21 So recklessness is out of the game. It's more about, like you were just saying, it's very mathematical and structured. Yeah. And it's about accuracy and repeating that accuracy. Yes. 20:33 But of course… The journey, you get better, of course, as you get older. And then when you get to Formula One, of course, that's another level again. But through the junior categories, of course, there's lots of errors and rushes of blood and where you make some horrendous errors because you're learning. And that's natural. But of course, if you are learning, that's the most important thing. If you continue to do the same mistake over and over and over again, then of course, people will know that. And that's obviously not a good one. 20:59 Did you ever have during these periods, before Formula 1, but did you ever have during these periods that you can recall a moment where you thought, fuck, oh, that's so dumb what I did? 21:11 Is there anything that stands out to you that you'll never forget during this period, not Formula 1, but during this period? 21:18 Yeah. Yeah. 21:19 mainly linked to crashes I suppose in terms of just again a situation that the percentages were so low in pulling a passing move off or something that you thought was on And it was not. And you went for something that just was half-baked and half-cocked and it didn't come off. 21:40 Can we talk about the decision-making process? If you can recall, maybe I've got to get around him. I'm going to overtake. Is it a hair's breadth between doing and not doing it or is it very strategic? Are you looking for 20 different signatures that say, now I go? 21:57 Yeah. No, good point, mate. I mean, yeah, there's body language of the car in front. You know, how's he going? What's he doing? Can you explain what that is? Oh, he's like where his car positioning is. You know, is he driving within the car? Is he on the limit of the car in front? You're sort of, you're seeing how he might be, this might be his limit. And you're saying, okay, well, I can squeeze him into a mistake just by following him. He might make a small error and make it easy for myself. Yeah. Or in a situation where you've got someone that's over-defending and see they're under pressure, they're happy to even give up a second or third or a fourth, we might be fighting for fourth, and he's happy to let them go and he's going to take the battle within ourselves. 22:35 Now it's a one-on-one between ourselves. And that's where there's been times where I'm like, I've got to take care of this and fix this up. And sometimes you might do it too hastily and there's contact and you've stuffed up. So you don't look at the big chess piece, the chess player, I suppose, holistically at that age too early. You're just like, okay, when you get more experience, you're like, okay, pull yourself back out of this. 23:00 Let's look at this from outside and go, okay, I need to actually strip this down a bit nicer. But when you're 19, I mean, good luck with that. Like you are just right up a drain pipe. You want to be- I'm going to do it. Yeah, I'm going to do it. And I make my presence felt and I make sure he knows I'm here. 23:15 Do you sort of get into a zone? Because like, A, you're driving the car, you've got your foot here, your hand there, blah, blah, everything. And you're also surveying everything around you. And you're feeling what's behind you. And you're sort of feeling what's on your side. Your brain, your eyes, all your senses, observing a whole heap of stuff. Then at the same time, you're strategizing. Yeah. It's like you can nearly forget to drive. You think about, I've got to do this. Of course, mate. 23:39 Of course. And that, again, like at the Formula One level, the mind management, you know, with the RAM, if the RAM is full, you know, then obviously your situation of making consistently the right decisions is going to struggle if you're... Yeah, if your brain's full of stuff going left, right, center. So your ability to be able to... And the eyes are critical, of course. And you make a good point about peripheral vision. Peripheral vision is huge in sport and huge in our sport as well. because your eyes are scanning the speed we're going we need to be able to that all needs to become just if it's coming at you super super slow you know in everything even on a qualifying lap which is us against the track the ultimate test of speed is us in qualifying so you go out and you have to be able to drive the car on the absolute limit and that has to be coming at you In the best days of my racing career, that is coming at you very slowly. 24:32 Oh, really? 24:32 You can slow it down. 24:33 Well, that's when you're performing brilliantly, it's coming at you very, very slowly. 24:38 And you're ahead. You're just so far ahead of what's happening. And the same in racing. So that flow, we talk about the flow or what, it's very hard. 24:47 Is that the thing you talk about? 24:48 Yes, of course. Of course. So it's coming at you very, and you're so present. You're so present. There's no baggage from what's happened. There's no baggage ahead. It's just like you're here. You're here. You are so with the car and you're just, you're present. And that's when- Sounds like you're sort of floating in a meditative sense. That's the big secret sauce if you can get there. Is that right? Obviously, if we can. Yeah, of course. I think that's, and if you can bottle that every weekend, which unfortunately when for me, when I had to come up against the Michael Schumackers and the Lewis Hamilton and those guys, that's a headache because those guys, well, they are arguably- 25:24 You know, they have been or they're both in the goat conversation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So… But do you think that they… Are you saying to me now that that was not intimidating but like a mountain you have to climb because you thought they were very good at doing this, getting into the… They were in that more often than probably, you know, the guys. 25:45 You know, I still had some success but obviously the absolute greats In any sport. I think they are in that window just a bit easier. 25:57 And they seem like they've got more time than anybody else. 25:59 Of course, look at Roger. 26:00 Yeah. 26:01 Zinedine Zidane, I don't know if you know him. 26:02 Yeah, the famous French soccer player. Sure do. I'm watching him in the World Cup. It's a joke. Final. It's a joke. 26:07 Yeah. It's an absolute joke watching him play football. 26:11 I watch him play. I watched France win the World Cup in Paris many, many years ago, and he was amazing. 26:16 Slow motion. 26:17 Yeah. It looks like slow motion. 26:19 The ball comes to it. Everything slows down when he's on it, and people are moving around, and he's just like ... That's a beautiful example. Yeah. of time in sport when people – so obviously if everything's rushed, not good. 26:33 Andrew Johns. 26:34 Time. 26:34 Yeah. 26:35 Time. Got time, mate. So they create time. 26:38 And that's the thing where – and I think it's massive on the peripheral stuff. Huge. Because that ability to be able to stall your gyro, you know, even all your balance and everything is just so in sync and it's incredible. 26:57 It's great to watch. It's interesting you should say that because it's funny. I was talking to Dave Warner in the podcast actually and Dave said to me that – We're talking about bowlers and or batsmen, but they don't rely on peripheral vision as much as they rely on, they have unbelievable closeness of their eyes together and they can hit a ball because they can really zone in on the ball that's coming towards them, which is sort of semi the opposite to you. 27:27 You've got to see what's happening around you everywhere. You've got a massive span on you. 27:31 Well, we're covering a football field every second. 27:34 Wow. Wow. 27:35 Covering a football every second. 27:37 One, two, three, four, five, six football fields in six seconds. So when you're doing 220. You mean literally? Speed. That's the speed. 27:44 Yeah, it's a plus on one. There's probably studies on this. Yeah, it's about that. We're doing 370K an hour. That's 100 meters every second. 27:52 Yeah. 27:52 Yeah. 27:53 Wow. It's quick. So that's, I mean, of course, your peripheral vision is critical because we're picking up braking boards. And that's if we're not driving the right braking boards, like our braking markers, you know, with that speed. If we elect to brake at one tenth of a second later or earlier, of course, that has a huge effect on our lap time and where we're braking. And that's if we're driving in beautiful conditions. Think about driving in the rain. Yeah. 28:19 When there's spray, you can't really see. 28:22 You can't see properly? 28:23 Not as much. Very limited vision. Very, very limited vision. And that's where another thing in our game, when you are under immense stress, whether it's communication or whether it's visually you're compromised, your hearing is another credible parameter on listening to the car in front, where could he be listening to things like that. It's another cueing. Hearing is another massive tool for us in the car, which is phenomenal. Because one of the first things that go when you're under severe pressure, if the team are talking to you and you're in a situation of pressure, the brain will, that's like it just, I didn't hear that. 29:02 Or, you know, because- That happens? It does happen. Would you know that they said something if you don't know what they said? 29:06 You could do, but you might, yeah. It has happened at times where obviously you- You say, what the fuck did you say? You might repeat it or like just, yeah. So when there's a lot going on, the it'll prioritize what we've got the task at hand which is of course being present with the car and operating the machine the best you possibly can and then you've got to be able to take instruction and sometimes that can be the brain might prioritize that um in a way that you might not want it to prioritize because you just got a task at hand and that's again where the phenomenal guys you know and even guys at formula one level you know there's a lot of people that Could. 29:41 I mean, mate, I didn't have the most skill. I worked really hard, but I did not have the most skill and talent. But I worked hard. You mean natural talent? That's right. Absolutely not. And I raced against a lot of guys in the junior case. Jeez, I was talented. But, of course, application and all these things, they're just… Persistent, consistent. 29:56 Didn't happen, yeah. Yeah. Attitude. 29:59 Sir Alex Ferguson would always say, mate, he'll take the workout over the… Every time. 30:03 Of course. I mean, everything I see in business is exactly the same. 30:07 So I would, you know… It's a long way home from Europe with your tail between your legs, you know, and I never forgot that. 30:15 Do you feel pressure then to say, I don't want to come home with my tail between my legs. I've got to make this work. And was it because I want mum and dad to be proud or is that just innate in you, in Martin Webber? 30:30 A lot of accountability for, you know, making to go over there and – Not an embarrassment, but it's like, I have to make this work. I don't want to come back to Australia. And for me, it was nearly like a failure if I came back because I thought I have to make this work in Europe. I want to get as far as I can over here and I want to get to Formula One. 30:58 Well, can I just stop you there, Mark? Because is that more about, which one is it more about? Is it more about Mark Webber hated the thought of possible failure or is it, it could be both, but is it Mark Webber is desperate to succeed? 31:14 They're different things. I don't want to fail. I think it's the latter. I must succeed. 31:19 I want to succeed. You know, for example, I'll give you, I turned pro, I got picked up by Mercedes-Benz in 90, end of 97. 31:26 After this period? Yeah. 31:27 This year, this is in 97. And so I was getting going, but still financially, like we had no real commercial firepower, like in terms of the sponsorship situation wasn't great. But Mercedes, thankfully, I was lucky to get picked up by them through some of my results. And I went on a training camp in Austria with all the European drivers. It was about 10 of us, all the juniors at Mercedes picked us up. And I was the worst in fitness. 31:50 Worst. Fitness, what do you mean? At altitude, like doing the hikes and doing this and doing that and all the gym work and all that. 31:56 Traditional fitness. Yep. 31:58 And I remember saying to myself, back in my room that night, yeah. 32:03 This will never, ever happen again. Ever. It's not happening again. 32:08 What do they get you to do? 32:09 I just wake up in the morning and go on a hike with the snowshoes on at altitude in Zurs, which is really nice to Austria. If all the listeners, you want to go to Zurs, it's a nice place to go ski in Austria. But when you're a young little pup and you're getting belted by- From Guimbein. Yeah, yeah. From Guimbein in the snow. Of course, I was so out of my depth. Literally, physically out of my depth in terms of the snow. So- And of course, doing three or four sessions a day, mate, I was absolutely getting smoked. 32:37 And I just thought, this is, I was delusional, absolutely delusional that what I thought I was doing was enough. And I needed a serious uppercut, massive uppercut. And that was the uppercut. 32:49 You give yourself an uppercut? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So what do you do? You're laying in bed and you think, I'm fucked, Tim. I can't believe I'm coming last and everything. What do you do? Oh, survive that week. 33:00 Obviously, get myself through that. And then I know that feedback will be going back to the bosses about they do a report on obviously the driver conditioning and all the youngsters and blah, blah, blah. And obviously, you've got this Australian kid in the mountains who's obviously nowhere. But that was... 33:17 Just what I needed, apparently. Kick up the ass. 33:19 Exactly. 33:20 Bang. Because, you know, you can have a few people blowing smoke up your ass. Yeah. But when it comes to actually physically, when you can't, when they're going away from you, and you know on the racetrack, I can smoke these guys. You know, a lot of these guys. Skill-wise. Yeah. Yeah, but... 33:33 So anyway, so that's when I took, you know, the accountability for myself and say, you know, I have to, no one can make me get up and do my runs, get, you know, so that's self. So that's where it's a massive team sport. But of course the ownership on yourself as an individual in the sport and consistently turning like the investment in yourself to say, I have to own all of these things. I've got to own them because, you know, you can action, as you know, you have to action things. You can talk about getting fit, but But then if I want to come back here next year, I want to be top everywhere. 34:04 So you got through it, and obviously you did enough to get through it with Mercedes-Benz, but you're knowing that maybe I want to get invited back next year. So what does Mark Webber do then? What did you do? Did you go and join a gym? What did you do? 34:16 Get a trainer? 34:18 I did still a lot myself. I did a lot myself because I knew sports-wise I was still coordinator. It wasn't like I was unco. I was still pretty handy at lots of different sports, but I just thought I was just doing enough. Yeah, yeah. And there's a great line, mate, from the UK Special Forces guys, average is easy. That's why it's popular, right? Yeah. It's easy to be average. There's a lot of average out there. 34:41 Yeah. 34:41 And we can do average and it's popular. Yeah. 34:43 Yeah. And you'll be average. 34:46 Let's fucking not be average. 34:47 Yeah, totally. 34:47 Because if you do the same as what other people – you have to be prepared to do something that other people are not doing. 34:52 Yeah. 34:52 Because if you do the same as them, then – You'll be the same as them. You'll be the same as them. Yeah. So I'm like, okay – I need to be doing, you know, so I came back here. I was in Queen and actually ended that year. I went to Threadbow, took myself there for two weeks alone, Threadbow. That's when they had a little like Olympic set up. I think there was some Olympic set up in Threadbow at the time there. There was a swim pool. 2000 or something. Yeah. And ready for the Olympics. Yeah. So I just plugged myself in up there and I just flogged myself. 35:18 What, like, just train? 35:19 Alone. Running. Just eat, sleep, train. Eat, sleep, train. Swim, run, mountain bike, repeat, blah, blah, blah. 35:26 There's something scary about that, you know, when you say that sort of stuff. 35:29 I did all that alone, yeah. And I like the element of surprise. When I went back there, it's like, okay, holy shit. 35:37 He's now, yeah, that's good. Did you, okay, but did you kick ass up? 35:40 Yeah, great. Yeah, I did well. Yeah, so it was good. So that side, that was then, that was covered. 35:46 You now know that if I do this work, I can be up there at the front of the team. 35:51 Yeah. I mean, it's not always linked to the stopwatch, but it's a controllable, you can control about standards, about the people that are investing in you, the people that believe in you, because you've also got to showcase to them that you believe You know, I'm getting paid. Back then, I was getting 140,000 Deutschmarks, which is, you know, better than nothing because it wasn't a huge amount of money. But, like, shit, I'm getting paid, finally turned professional. This is incredible. 36:17 And I'm embarrassing myself in certain situations. So that was something I just couldn't accept. 36:22 So I had to take care of it. 36:24 But that's a bit – like, I find it just a – I don't find it, but it's a little bit scary that your mindset is that, okay, stuff this. I'm going to go back to Australia. It's the ski season. I'm going to go up to Threadbow in this late 90s, probably around 2000 period, and I'm going to start training myself. 36:42 And B, I'm going to go there by myself, and I'm going to train the shit out of myself. It's like, I don't know, some like SAS type thing. Do you ever think to yourself, or has anyone ever observed to you, about you, that – You're a bit of a crazy dude. 36:56 I've been lucky to be with some of those guys, which is not before then. And I met actually a really inspirational guy and impactful guy in my career was a guy called Bernie Showsbury, who I met. He was part of the SBS, which is got the SAS in the UK and Hereford, and you've got the SBS in pool. Right. And he was influential in my career from 1999 onwards, exactly on these things. But I had thankfully before that started to find out that, yeah, because... 37:21 I've got, mate, you've got to own that. You know, I'd come back and mum was stressed out. You know, I was full of cold source. When I'm stressed and run down, I get cold source. 37:28 Yeah, yeah. And I came back. And she saw that. 37:30 Yeah, she's like, mate, what are you doing? I said, yeah, because I was so, and it was, a lot of it was probably reckless. There was not a lot of method in the madness, actually. You know, I know you've got another podcast on health and things like that, which is really good. I like listening to that. And this would not have been, if you did that sample of me going up there and flogging myself, you It wouldn't have been, you know, but I believed it was at the time the right things for me to believe in my own journey and my conditioning. And it was a way to build my confidence to actually, and then blends into the cockpit for my performance. 38:02 Who pitched up for Formula One? How did that happen? 38:05 Oh, so, mate, so after 99, I was racing for Mercedes, and I had a very nasty accident in France in June. 38:15 The cars were flying, so aerodynamically, they were very unstable, and so we had two flips, basically, which is just incredible. 38:22 Is that because you're going so fast? 38:23 Yeah, and aerodynamically, the cars were not stable, so at a certain speed- It took off. It took off. Wow. Which is- Not where you want to be. 38:32 I can't imagine that. But when that happens, you feel like you've got no control because you don't have no wheels on the ground. Yeah. What's going through your head? Oh, you think you're going to die. You're cooked. Yeah. 38:42 Yeah, you think you're going to die. There's two within a day and a half. 38:47 So the car was just... 38:50 It was a ticking bomb, unfortunately. And subsequently, they pulled out of the race after the flips that we had and things like that. But the car... 38:58 It didn't have a lot of power, so when you've got no power, you've got to run the car very light on downforce, and when the car's got low downforce, it's very suspect at high speed in terms of the car being unstable at high speed. 39:10 Did you know that, though, before you became airborne? Yeah, we knew. 39:12 I mean, yeah, you are. You're on the limit. You're playing the risk game, of course, but not to that level. A car should never be taken off, and they were. 39:20 But the fascinating thing with that, Mark, is that when you are faced with, that is a very, very, very horrible situation to be in when you are that high up in the sky at 280K and you've got trees either side of the circuit. 39:34 It's actually quite calm. I wasn't panicked. I wasn't really panicking. I was more thinking about Anne, my wife, and my sister, and my mum, all the three women. 39:42 I hope they're not watching, which probably some of them were, but you think about... 39:47 And maybe this is it. Maybe this is- Really? 39:50 Yeah, maybe this is it. 39:51 And I wasn't panicking, but I just wanted over quick. I said, I don't want to suffer. I don't want no suffer. Just turn the lights off. 39:58 When it comes down, is it coming down front ways or is it coming back on its ass? 40:01 I don't have a choice in that, buddy. So it came down on its ass, yeah. Yeah. On its ass and then finished up on its roof. The second one, I was a bit trapped in there. So you flipped. Then you're worried about fuel and fire and stuff. Oh, really? Yeah. So anyway, so- After that, I had a very difficult decision to make in my career, which was telling Mercedes, I don't want to race sports cars anymore, go back to no salary, zero income, go back to looking for sponsors again. 40:30 And through from 99 June, when the accidents were through to like October, phone was dead. No one was interested in me and career was over pretty much. I was over there and we had, Anne and I had nothing really. 40:45 And Eddie Jordan was a famous F1 team owner at the time based up at Silverstone. 40:51 And his PA, I'd ring Eddie. I was trying to get some work with this formula, even just some testing. I can do something. Can you show me? I want to showcase what I can do. And Eddie and his PA was just brilliant. She would never ever, like she'd always find a way not to get, you know, I could never get through to him. I'm just this. That's what they're for, mate. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, the gatekeeper. 41:08 Yeah. 41:09 So, and that went on for a couple of weeks and I thought, stuff this, I'm going to drive to see him when he's leaving the factory. Stalk him, basically. Yeah, I'm going to stalk him, yeah. So, I'm going to drive. I had a Ford laser, a 1.1 litre shitbox Ford laser. A Ford laser. Yeah. And because I had to give my company car back to Mercedes and all that sort of stuff. So I'm like, okay, I want to get my single seater career back on. And Mercedes said, okay, we're happy to keep paying you and go in some other categories for us and do some other things. And I went, now that's the easy option. 41:41 I still want to try and get back on my Formula One dream. 41:45 So that was a huge risk that we took there. And then I door stopped Eddie and Eddie Jordan said, mate, you've got to meet this guy, Paul Stoddard, who's an Australian guy. He's got a Formula One team and let's go and meet him. So the day after, pretty much back at the same venue, Silverstone, where all the testing happened. So I went to see Paul Stoddard and Paul Stoddard pretty much gave me a chance in Formula One. But what convinced me, Rick? I had a test drive with him in the curtain, the category that's below F1 called Formula 3000 then. So I drove for him in 2000 in that and went well for him. 42:20 And then... 42:21 After that, I got the chance to move into Formula One in 2002. So it was, yeah, I mean, it was the worst team. It was the slowest team on the grid, you know, and I had a two-race contract, two races. You had a contract for two races? For basically 14 days, Melbourne Grand Prix and Malaysian Grand Prix. 42:40 And my first event, I managed to finish fifth in my first Formula One race. 42:44 And is that considered good, though? 42:45 That was, mate, the biggest fluke ever. 42:49 Biggest fluke ever. Why? Just because there was a lot of the big guys crashed out. 42:53 Right. 42:53 And our car should not have got to the finish. The Grand Prix is 300 kilometers, flat out. Like, it doesn't sound long, but 300K is absolutely flat out. 43:00 Yeah. 43:01 And our car, the previous distance that had done before then was around 100Ks, like in testing. So we never thought, and the team boss said to me on the grid, he said, mate, if you can bring this car home, just finishing. Just do 300Ks. It would be such a highlight for me. And, mate, I'm towards the back of the grid. Yeah. Race starts, there's a huge crash, and we're running, and there's a bit of attrition, you know, like a couple of big boys pulling out, and I'm, like, looking on P11, P10. Shit, this is going all right. And, like, I just want to be finishing and et cetera, et cetera. And I'm, like, this is my first Grand Prix, man. I will hardly fit in the car. 43:32 I'm, like... 43:34 The team's based in Italy, you know, so they'd cars, they used to design them around Italian drivers and all these little... Little guys. The short guy, yeah. He's this tall Australian. I was like, oh, this thing's so small. I'm finding out on my way that going this... I've never driven in this position for that long in this car. 43:49 And... 43:51 Yeah, I was then running fifth, and there was a driver called Mick Asalo, who was a Finnish driver in a huge, very well-funded team, the Toyota Works team, was catching me, and Paul started to come on the radio and said, mate, under no circumstances should you let him pass. No circumstances, let him pass. 44:08 Because they can see it, they're watching it. 44:12 Yeah, but also because the points, so they award points for the top six players, And financially for him to get two points because it was one point for six, two point for five, and you work your way up to 10 points for a win. So for him financially as a team owner, this was huge. Oh, wow. You know, big numbers for him. 44:29 So he knew. I mean, of course, he didn't get in that position because he wasn't a gambling man. So he wanted to double down. So I don't want one point or two. And I'm like, I'm in first race and I'll do what I can. So we got fifth. And so how do you avoid it? How do you avoid this? Oh, just like, of course, making it hard for him. You know, it was like, we could have gone, okay, we're happy with the point. We've got to get this car home. It was still, there was a lot of reliability issues. 44:48 Six would have been okay, but fifth. 44:49 Yeah. But like, it's like, and you know what? I was also calm when he arrived. I knew he was coming. He arrived and it's like, righto. 44:56 I'm ready. Let's go. Let's go. 44:58 Are they telling you on the radio he's on his way? 45:00 I can see it on the pit board. I can see it on the pit board, yeah. And then, of course, at some point, you've got him in the mirrors. But I had, you know, he was much quicker than me when he arrived. But I was like, I've just got to make it a bit… Do you have a faster car? A better car? Yes. Yeah, yeah. But, you know, he still had to get around me. Yeah. And I just tried to make it as… Are you allowed to do that? 45:14 Like, block him off? 45:15 Yeah. Yeah, sure. 45:16 Yeah. As legal, so to say. 45:18 Yeah, within limits. You can't, obviously, just, you know… cream someone off the circuit but you've got to make him work for it so anyway the result was extraordinary and Stoddy said you've got to drive for the rest of the year 45:32 Oh, wow. 45:32 So you had a contract. So you've gone from two weeks? Yeah, two weeks to the whole year. Yeah. And then I was driving and then I got an offer middle of the season. I was in sort of testing or there was a beauty parade for me to drive some other teams in the middle of that year. So then year after I went to drive for Jaguar for a few years. And that was when it really started for me financially and also with proper, well, a big team, a big team of people. 45:54 Do they pay good money? I mean, there's good money in this. 45:57 Once you can just get to some level. 45:59 Yeah, yeah, yeah. The drivers are well looked after. 46:01 Retirement level. Yeah. Like, if you stay there long enough. 46:04 Yeah, of course. 46:05 Comfortable. That's right. 46:06 If you have a long career, yeah, you're looked after pretty well. And then, yeah, and then I went through, I think, like, I was so lucky to race for Red Bull. You know, Red Bull was, Mr. Mutterschitz was, you know, he was the, probably the most inspirational guy I've ever met in my life. Really? That just, yeah, he just, you know, had great vision and, yeah, so. 46:24 Well, what was that interaction like? 46:27 Oh, my God, mate. You would have seen people, mate. I know you've spent time with Kerry Packer. It's like they've been here before. Yeah. 46:36 His conversion, just getting decisions right, was just ridiculous. 46:40 Love spending time with him. And, you know, he was the one that, you know, in adrenaline sports, extreme sports, you know, with Red Bull, he was a big visionary on all that. 46:52 What do you learn that personally? Well, he was a very straight guy. Very, very straight in terms of just so uncomplicated. You know, he just made everything that should be, could be complicated or people can make complicated uncomplicated. 47:06 So in other words, his delivery to a simple, you knew exactly what he was expecting or what he was thinking. 47:12 Yeah, just incredible. Yeah, just, you know, this is my expectations of you, you know, do this, you know, do that. Boom, very clear messages. It's an honor to have you with the team, et cetera. And just the way he was so... 47:28 He didn't put any pressure on you. He just had this great way, but also you were honoured to represent him and drive for him. Yeah, you wanted to do good for him. Oh, my God. You wanted to do so well for him, yeah, even though, of course, he's an incredibly, incredibly successful man, but you were a small cog in the chain of his huge empire and But the way that he believed in us guys, and obviously myself and David Coulthard, we were sort of there when the team was dock going. So it was formative years of Red Bull racing and getting in. 47:58 Now the Formula One team is one of the best teams there is. 48:02 Isn't it funny though? Back on great memories with that. 48:05 Isn't it funny how athletes perform best when they want to play well for the, let's call it the coach? 48:10 Mm-hmm. 48:11 You know, and we just go back to the footy analogy. Some of the great coaches, the team want to play for that individual and they want to win for that coach. 48:18 Oh, sure. 48:19 And it's the same in business too. Like there are some people you just want to do it for them. Yeah. You're just saying that was the sort of sense that you got for yourself. I want to do well for this dude. 48:30 Yeah. No, you're right, Mark. I think it's the pride as well. It's you want him to be proud of what you're bringing to the table and that substance and being dependent on you working for him because his name's above the door. 48:45 Yeah. 48:45 End of the day, his name's above the door and he's paying you to do a job. And of course, I want him to be proud of what you're doing. You're doing everything you can to deliver for For him, of course, he's got lots of... It's a huge business, but the racing armour was one of the biggest parts of his empire. Massive part of his brand. And still is to this day. I mean, Dietrich, unfortunately, is not with us anymore, but... 49:12 But you're right. I think when someone's got the name above the door, I've been lucky enough to drive for Porsche too. Porsche, a phenomenal brand. I drove for them after I finished with Red Bull and Dietrich was kind enough to say, I support that move. It's great. They're a great brand. And so that was, again, just the quality of how Dietrich handed that transition was just incredible between the pair of us. But anyway, Porsche, Mr. Porsche, Wolfgang Porsche in the garage. Serious? I hope you enjoy driving our cars. Serious? Wow. And you're like, that's like... If that doesn't give you goosebumps in terms of like, you know, oh, here I am, you know, racing these gorgeous racing cars and Mr. Porsche's there and he's proud of you. 49:48 I hope you enjoy racing our cars and doing that kind of stuff. 49:52 Awesome. Absolutely awesome. 49:54 Do you still see, would you see that, like, because, I mean, I can see that myself sometimes when I was younger, but do you see that as, that's a young, that's still a young kid, Mark Webber, the boy, who wanted to do the right thing by Sheenzy. Yeah. And instead of putting the ball next to the touch judge's feet, he's taken Sheenzy's instructions to help the team get, keep momentum on the field. Yeah. Like, you know, box head, make sure box head got the hole of the ball. And I'm serious. It's the same kid. But now you're, you know, you're 30 or whatever age you are. 50:27 It's the same kid being the same person and wants to do the right thing or the best thing for the team. 50:31 Yeah. I think, I think, yeah. 50:34 It's not to say you didn't grow up. I do. 50:35 No, of course. But I think that's always, you know. It's indented in your brain. Of course. But it comes from the house I grew up in as well. 50:40 Yeah, and for your dad, mum. 50:42 Of course, that's the thing, you know, like it's just, you know, dad was like he was, he still is to this day, a big practical joker. People don't know my old man, like he's a lunatic. But, you know, when it comes to, you know, just the basics of, you know, turning up on time, please and thank yous, like all those things in terms of actually being respected and those things, which I think… And also for me, mate, I was also representing, I think, Australia as well. You know, like there was a big gap. There was 25 years, I think, between Alan Jones winning at that level. Yeah, I remember. There's only five Australians that have won, mate, in Formula One. Like it's actually, it's not easy, yes, but you are, of course, I look at, okay, there's a blend of being patriotic because you want to get that. 51:19 Mate, when I hear that national anthem, mate, in the middle step. 51:22 Wow. 51:22 Wow. 51:23 it just blows me away. Goosebumps. Yeah. You know, I just, to this day, like, I just like, you know, to be able to do that, you know, at that level was, for me was. Especially on the podium. Of course, mate. Incredible. Like, and also the people watching in Australia, of course, and my family and the, and the commitment, my mechanics down there, like everyone, you're like, shit, this is the, this is the, the, the execution of actually all that work. And, and you're right. Like, it's not just about, you know, oh, it's about everyone else, but it's, it's, You are the arrowhead. You're the one that's actually got the accountability and the standards which you've got to consistently try and bring to the table and keep improving yourself. 51:59 I think the adaption, we touch on that. You have to be able to adapt all the time, right? If you're not adapting, mate. Because it's not the same. It changes. Of course, different regulations. Look at tennis. Look at clay. Look if you want to win four slams in a year. 52:10 you know, that's not easy. Clay, grass, you know, here in Rod Labor, and then you've got Flushing Meadow, bang, golfers, different core, like whatever. So, again, the greats can feel... I could jag... Adapt. A couple of surfaces, mate. I could do a couple of surfaces, but I couldn't win on all four. Yeah. Like, you know, so that's... So I've got to jag a few Wimbledon or whatever the equivalent of in our sport, but in terms of like the... 52:32 But so I think that adaption thing is a real, a key thing and using your resources, the people around you, how you can get better with that. 52:39 I love that sense of nationalism or patriotism that you have, like you want to do it for the country. 52:46 Yeah, I think, well, because also there was, like I said, that gap was big and I was responsible for like, in a way, like it was, you know, we've had, obviously Sir Jack was a three-time world champion in his own car, will never be done again, never be done again. 53:02 AJ, you know, won World Championship 1980, and then he won races, and then it was myself, and then it was Daniel, and then there was, now there's Oscar. So, to win at that level, I think it knows, because commercially from Australia, we don't move the needle much in this sport. We're not, you know, we're a small country. Yeah, yeah. Very small country, not just geographically. We're big in landmass, but geographically, we're obviously... 53:26 All the big stuff in America and Europe and Northern Hemisphere, the commercial firepower, we don't bring much to the table on that sense. 53:37 We bring our speed and our, I suppose, the standards in what we can bring to the team. 53:46 But when you say it's only five, it's actually, you're right, it's only five, you just named them, but it's 75 years. 53:54 That's pretty crazy, but are we well represented relative to our size though? Because Australians tend to always bat beyond their weight. Yeah, I think so, mate. Pretty well. I think pretty well. 54:06 Statistically, the guys that have, yeah, the ones that have, I mean, the British have got, you know, So many world champions because eight of the Formula One teams or seven of the Formula One teams are based in the UK. 54:19 Oh, really? 54:19 Wow. They're all based there. You've got Ferrari, obviously, in Maranello. Yeah. And Audi are based in Switzerland, but the rest are based in the UK. So it's a very UK-centric sport. But... 54:30 So for us to leave here and to go over there, whatever age it is. And to break in. Break in, you know, culture, all the rest of it, you know, and that's part of the test. The Monday to Friday is, I think, the hardest part of the test. 54:42 What do you mean by that? 54:44 No family around. 54:45 Yep. 54:46 You know, the devil finds, you know, time for idle hands. 54:50 Yeah, my mother used to say that. 54:51 Exactly. You know, so when you're looking for shortcuts and this and that, like, oh, the excuses, I can't, oh, maybe, you know. So when you haven't got your helmet on or when you're not competing, there's opportunities to find some not great habits. Stray. Yeah. Yeah. 55:10 And there has been situations, you know that, mate, there's people that have derailed their careers through exactly bad choices Monday to Friday. They had all the other things. The ingredients were there, but they screwed up on. They had the talent. Yeah. But they didn't have the mentors. They didn't have the people. It didn't convert into their heads that advice at that right time, whatever sport that was right. Or even business. 55:36 Same business. I mean, I know some brilliant guys, absolute geniuses, who have stuffed it up. It's funny because I keep going back to – how you were brought up by it and the influence your dad had on you and no doubt your mother too but your dad in relation to structure and process and steps and let's call it discipline a discipline approach those things stuck with you and bode well for you I think it seems like I think you're right mate but I think you know he wasn't a disciplinarian though no no I don't mean that yeah we never really had a crossword but I think again it was just the proud like you know 56:11 In essence, you just, I mean, I was so lucky to spend time with Nicky Lauda. 56:16 Nicky Lauda, wow. Sir Jackie Stewart. 56:19 Some of these people that I, of course, they're older than me, but you say, what can I learn? How they roll? What can I do? 56:24 Did you do that consciously? 56:25 Yeah, sure. 56:27 And those relationships are ones that I've treasured. And I think they're the people that actually, and I did search for that because, of course, you want to try and, you know, be the best example of yourself along the way. And, of course, dad doesn't have all the answers, but you're like, you know, and you're intimate, you circle because, of course, there is a natural point and sometimes where people that are super close to you, sometimes they won't give you the medicine you need. Yeah, yeah. You know, they will, you know. 56:52 Yeah. 56:53 just sugarcoat things and blow a bit of smoke up your ass. But at that level, you can't be... It's such a fine line, right, to be hanging in there and also having the chance to execute week in, week out. So I think that I was lucky enough to also have some nice relationships with those guys, which was really good for me because, yeah, they've... 57:19 They've been there and seen them, mate. You know, Sir Jackie Stewart, I think he went to 25 or 30 funerals, you know. Wow. You know, in the 70s, you know, when they were losing so many men racing. 57:29 So this is a guy that's dealt with, you know, and Nicky Ladder went through so much in his life as well. So icons, absolute icons of our sport. And I'd just sit down, mate, you know. 57:39 Sir Alex Ferguson, mate, the great Manchester United, you know, you've got one mouth and two ears. Use them in that order, you know. 57:47 I like it. So in F1, in Formula 1, what would be your, what do you think was the greatest highlight of your career? 57:55 Monaco... 57:56 Winning in Monaco twice was certainly very, very special. That's probably our Wimbledon, if you like. It's a very hard weekend to put together. How do you mean? It's a tough track. It's a street circuit. It's really not designed for the cars. So it's you against the track because it's such a, it's a ribbon of asphalt with Armco pinned up on either side of the track. 58:17 And you've got to be, the weekend is about, you know, the risk you're prepared to take and when you're prepared to put it all on the line, which is the last part of qualifying because that's when they set the grid for the race. So you cannot overstep that mark at any point on the Friday or Saturday in practice. You've got two practice sessions on Friday. You've got one practice session on Saturday morning. And then Saturday afternoon is the moment of you've got like, it's a 70-second lap plus or minus two seconds depending on the grip of the track. 70 seconds where you have to be… 70 seconds. 58:48 70 seconds when that is the foundation of the weekend. 58:53 Bang. 70 seconds or 68 seconds and you've got to execute. 58:58 Because I've been to two Grands Prix there and… And for those people who don't know it, it's sort of a tunnel there and it sort of looks to me as a street. It's sort of quite narrow. Yeah. It's tight. 59:13 Very tight. It's not really for the cars, yeah. 59:16 And keep in mind our eyeline, Mark, like the eyeline, it's sort of knee height when you and I are standing. 59:22 Yeah. 59:22 Your eyeline's very low. So the sensation of speed is quite high. So the top rail of Armco is well above your eyeline. You're not looking over the bloody fence, am I saying? Yeah, yeah. You're like – you've got Darmco both sides. 59:35 So, they were big. They were huge highlights for me, mate, to win there. 59:41 And the British Grand Prix, which is another – that's been on the calendar for – it's always been on the calendar. That's a very, very, very famous Grand Prix. So, I managed to win that twice, which was nice. So, yeah. 59:51 How do you control your ego when you – after you get off the podium? I mean, everybody's – doing the champagne thing, whatever, you know, and there must be a party on after it. Like, how do you... Red Bull party, good, mate. The parties are good with Red Bull. 60:03 I think, again, mate, the podium ceremony is quite, you know, you've got the... 60:08 You know, the dignitary side, you know, got people coming up and obviously handing the trophies out and things like that. And then obviously you spray champagne, which is a celebration. 60:17 It's a convention. Yeah, it is. 60:18 You've got to do it. There's a story about it. Apparently there's champagne bottles and Jackie Stewart, he thinks it was his, he accidentally come across it, but it was actually the champagne bottle sitting there in a hot race. all day, and then he was trying to stop the champagne coming out, being a good Scotsman. He was trying to save money and save the champagne in the bottle. Best bankers. If you're ever going to open up a bank, you want them to be a teller. Yeah, get a Scotsman to do it. But anyway, yeah, he said the more he pressed on the bottle, the further it went, you know. So anyway, so, and then, you know, it's been a tradition that the champagne spraying is, is, is, is after a Grand Prix. 60:52 So, and then you go back to, you've got a lot of press. You do a lot of press, every language. You know, I don't speak lots of languages, but obviously you've got to go around, you know, you've got to. There's a process. Which is, Pretty repetitive because you pretty much want to get back to your team. Yeah. Of course, it's important. You've got to talk about your race and everything, but it does get, you know, when you've done 30 or 35 of the same interview, then you get back to your team and then, yeah, and then the pride is there. You think about your mechanics, mate. Think about the guy, the meticulous preparation. 61:23 Yeah. They, you know, I mean, some of these mechanics, we call them like your main, your front end mechanic or your number one mechanic. 61:32 You know, I'd have them beside my mum in hospital. That's the trust I have. Wow. Two or three of these guys. And if you rang them and said, mate, I need whatever, boom. So the trust, when he looks at you and says the car's ready to go, he's responsible for that whole car going out. Because keep in mind, mate, in five or six seconds, I've got the car on the limit. So we don't... 61:52 There's a bit of a warm-up, but there's not much. We're generally straight up. We are into it. So it's like a little mini airplane in many ways. So the preparation that he's got to do on it. So you want to see him. You want to see, of course, team bosses. You want to see the whole team because without the team, without all of them, mate, catering staff. Who's done all my meals all the way? All the chefs. Who's the physio? You know, all the people that have done your travel. You know, everyone. 62:20 You know, how do I get there? How do I get home? 62:22 Mate, it's a big team. 62:23 What I'm eating, where I'm staying. Yeah, all that. Well, where's your family then, your wife? 62:28 So, where does that fit in the next day? She'd go to a few races. 62:31 So, she went to, yeah, she'd probably go to every, you know, third or fourth race because she was also pivotal in my career in terms of, you know, logistics and managing staff. Yeah. So, that was important. So, she was, You know, good, also there for the bad days too, mate. We can talk about the cracking days, but also the shit ones too, which are rough. 62:49 But, and that comes with the territory. So, yeah, she's there, you know, but she was tucked away a lot. Yeah. She wasn't really, you know, she wasn't, you know, big on the limelight. And back then there was no social media, mate, and all that sort of stuff. 63:01 Thank God. Yeah. 63:03 It's a beautiful thing, isn't it? 63:04 Yeah, we can imagine. 63:05 It's good for the podcast, though. It's good for the pod. 63:08 We do love social media. Our audience loves social media. Well, let's just talk about Vettel. And I didn't – I mean, I sort of realized, but I started to really think about it. You're getting told by your team to do something, and you're – what's the word? What do they call it? 63:28 Multi-21. 63:29 Multi-21, yeah, yeah, yeah. 63:30 What the hell does multi-21 mean? 63:33 Um, and explain that moment. 63:35 I was, yeah, I was in Malaysian Grand Prix. Yeah. 2012, I believe. Um, no, 13. Yeah. My last year with Red Bull and, um, Basically, if a team rings up and says, this is the order we want you to finish the race in, then that's what they want. I understand that. Well, because sometimes you're up until a point, not from the start, but like the last part of the race, like if you've done like 85% of the Grand Prix, they could ring up and say that this would be very rare, super rare circumstances. 64:07 Particularly in Red Bull, it was very, very rare that that happened. Yeah. Where were you situated? I was leading the race. Yep. Yeah, and Sebastian was running second at the time. 64:18 And he was struggling a little bit in the first part of the Grand Prix, so he was under pressure for some – what, basically around the pit stops where he was trying to – He could have got out-positioned by some people behind him, so you can sort of help in a way by taking a sub-optimal pits for myself to help him clear those guys, and then we reset things at the last pit stop. 64:43 which was the case. Because all the chats before that, we were not competitive. We were blown away that we were leading, we were one, two in that race. So it was quite a surprise. And we had some reliability things in the background as well. So the cars were on the limit. We're taking some risks with certain things and And, yeah, the call come that it was car two, multi two, one, car two, which was me and car one. That's how we want to finish. 65:09 In that order. 65:09 In that order, yeah. You first. 65:11 So, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, turn everything down, look after the cars, engines, and, like, let's just get the cars on because everything's, you know, we've cleared Lewis. Everything's enough. 65:19 And Seb obviously went against that. But is that normal? Yeah. Yeah. 65:28 Can be. It was just – I mean, that was just one account. There was so much – we'd been teammates for a long time, so there was many, many things that went into that. 65:40 And look, Seb and I got on well today. We got on – What about then? No, no, not then. And he apologised, of course, after the race. It was a bit of a – 65:48 Bit of a shit show, to say the least. The media would have loved that. Of course they would have done, mate, yeah. 65:53 But I was already given Porsche a handshake at the end of 12. To leave. To leave. So irrespective. And I did. In 14, I went to Porsche. All that was good. So I think that it was a bigger deal than... 66:09 then it was probably made out. 66:12 Yeah, it was – but also for the team, again, challenging for them because, you know, you've got the two drivers, you know, going rogue on each other. But you didn't. You adhered to the instruction, didn't you? 66:26 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I left my engine. That's probably one of my regrets. I should have turned my engine back up. Oh, really? So I should have done that, but I didn't. But do you regret anything about it? 66:37 I probably should have – only that. I should have done that, was turn my engine back up and gave it everything. But I just – yeah, I just didn't. I don't know why I didn't, but I didn't. 66:48 But what happened – because I know your Instagram handles Aussie Grit. 66:52 Yeah, exactly, yeah. 66:53 What happened at that point? 66:54 Yeah, yeah. 66:55 And what does that mean? I mean, do you feel like you let yourself down on the Aussie Grit bit? 66:59 Yeah. Well, I fought as hard as I could on the day. Like I fought as hard as I could in that last part of the Grand Prix. And yeah, so it was sort of like, and of course in your mind is like, well, what's, you're getting constantly communication that the race is off and the race is on. So you're sort of like, it's a, It is a bizarre set of circumstances kicking off. Do you feel like hitting him on the chin, Aussie style? 67:24 Just for a moment. 67:25 Yeah. 67:28 Yeah, it was an interesting few weeks after that. But, yeah. But that, like, there's always, you know. But I think that the… 67:37 The fans want to see that too. Yeah, it's great for racing. 67:40 The fans want to see that. Also, it's the two – and also, by the way, Seb – and I think we've both said this to each other. I mean, Seb had my measure most of the time, but also we pushed each other to really good levels. That was important for us as a team. You've got to push each other. You have to have the internal – You've got to have the internal rivalry for the whole team. It's a competition. 68:05 Yeah. 68:05 It's a competition at the end of the day. It is a competition. It's not like after you, sir. So you've still got to have that fight. But on that particular day, which was very rare, but on that particular day, the team thought it was right just to cool our jets, but it didn't end up like that. Yeah. Was that your last Formula 1? that was my last year in f1 year so my last race was in brazil um yep finished uh on my terms which was really i mean i was so you know that's where the sport's been tremendous to me i'd finished on my terms um and yeah finished uh on the podium in brazil and with fernando and sebastian two great rivals of mine um two phenomenal operators and yeah it was a good finish and 68:45 So what is someone like – I mean, you're only a young man and obviously – not obviously, but perhaps you're in a situation where your money situation is pretty good, like you're comfortable and your family's comfortable. 69:02 But you're young, you've got plenty of energy. What do you do after this? Yeah, it's good, mate. 69:07 Good question because I think that that next phase, again, I lent on – the experienced guys, you know, what does that next phase look like? Because at 38, at 39, when I stopped racing, I still, I mean, I had a great, I squeezed a lemon, did what I could. And at that point, I was starting to see more risks than ever, which is not a good place to be. Yeah, yeah. You know, you're starting to see like that concrete wall has always been there. 69:34 Yeah. 69:34 My whole career at this track, a random track, it's always been there. Yeah. 69:38 fuck, I just noticed that. I'm starting to see stuff that I don't want to be seeing. So that's the first thing that's like, shit, I need to be probably thinking about pulling up stumps here. 69:47 And then it's like, the great bit of advice I got was that, because of course you're tired, end of your career, you think you want to have a break and people, again, or so Jackie said, if you have two or three or four years off, you're going to be invisible. You need to go and work, which I did with Porsche in sports cars, which at the time, this is a bit tight or maybe a gap and go back into competition. But he was right. You've got to go into- Straight away. 70:17 Yeah. And also, and then negotiating that contract as a Formula One driver compared to negotiating when you're two or three years off and coming back in, you're going to get a different number. 70:24 Yeah. 70:25 That's important. And so you feel you need the brake, but keep going, keep going. I did some media. I'm so lucky. I'm with Rolex. I'm with Porsche globally. Both those brands are incredible. Great relationship with Red Bull. So those things for me, and I've been with them a long, long, long time. I like that loyalty component, which I, again, of course you get other little offers here and there, but I want to be true to the brands that have believed in me as well and my backstory and the rest of it. So I think that But it happens fast, mate. 70:57 I've been retired 13 years. Wow. So, yeah, coming up to 50 next week, mate. Doesn't feel it. Yeah, coming to 50 next week. And, mate, you're flying for 70, son. You're cruising, you know. I'm going to go. It's incredible. So, okay, what are you going to do if you're 50th? 71:11 Oh, 50th. 71:14 It'll involve some red, good steak, close friends and- Pretty simple. Motorbikes probably, mate. Yeah. Yeah, motorbikes. But right now, I think of, you know, it's experienced. Like I think of every, like I'm, sports has been so good to me. I've met so many incredible people. 71:29 And I've, you know, I've had some, dodged some bullets along the way. And so 50th, like it's a milestone, but I'm looking at every- 71:38 Not every day. 71:39 It's a bit tacky saying every day is a freaking birthday. But I genuinely am stoked that I can have these great opportunities to look back. So that's gratitude. How important is gratitude in your life? 71:58 Very important. Yeah, because I think that, you know, I see again without being morbid, but of course I've lost a few mates that I've raced against. So, you know, you think about Yeah, you have to accept that, you know, you've been incredibly fortunate along the way and enjoyed good health. And, you know, I've had a couple of injuries here and there, but in terms of like, and learning off other people on the way, watching other sports, watching people's transition into, like say, post-career, all these things. It's fascinating the dynamics of how all that works. 72:29 roles. And I've, again, been so lucky to take counsel off some great people around the world. And I think that gratitude always comes back to it. I think it's that great Serena Williams line where the discipline, you get choices, no discipline, choices are forced on you. Wow, that's a good saying. Yeah. So it'll catch up with you. No discipline will catch up with you. We know that. You know that, mate. 72:50 Yeah. Well, I have to stay. Otherwise, I go Captain Rats. I mean, I've got to stay on the straight and narrow. 72:55 So, you've got your method to your madness. And I think that discipline in all people that have had some element of success, you know, it's the discipline. And turn it up, mate. You've got to turn up. 73:09 Yeah. 73:10 You know, if you're not turning up, you're toast. Yeah. 73:12 Because someone's asked me how I would describe success. 73:18 How do you describe success for yourself? 73:21 I think it's longevity in your career in your chosen field. I think if you're in there for a long time, I think that's success. 73:27 Not just winning for me, but staying in the game. 73:29 Of course, mate. Yeah. The first two or three years in your career, that's the hardest, I think, in most – because if you can get through those first two or three years – at that elite level, then, you know, you're sort of like, it's not getting easy, but you've sort of broken your way through and you're, and then you have these, you know, I always look at people that have a long career in anything, you know, that's speaks volumes to their, to their standards and their, and their discipline and, And the success of, you know, of course, but yeah, you need to share that, you know, give back a bit. 74:03 Yeah, pay forward. Of course, you know, I had the Tasmania Challenge. I had an adventure race down there back into, you know, so that was, I enjoyed doing that for kids with leukemia. So there's things where if you're in a position to give back a bit, of course, that makes you feel good. Do you have much interaction with Piastri? 74:21 Yeah, sure. Yeah. Of course. I mean, he's the latest and the greatest right now. 74:25 It's been so enjoyable to have him, you know, to help guide him. Because people guided you. Early, of course, early in his career. Yeah. And I think that, you know, it's hard to get… that strategy piece right to get it. So to help Oscar in that early part of his career and he's an immense talent. We know that. So it's been enjoyable to do that. But that's obviously my... It's also because... 74:54 You know, whether it's, again, might happen about whether it's Alex Ferguson or Mourinho or these great football managers or whatever, some of the best guys weren't guns. In their career, no. Yeah. You know, and I'm not saying that's for me with Oscar. I'm just saying like, you know, I, some of my biggest lessons, of course, was getting done by the Schumacher that you're seeing how, you know, Seb operated or seeing how Lewis operated or, you know, I've done cycling with Lance Armstrong. I've done, hang on, Maria Sharapova, a phenomenal woman. She's what she's done. She's had her own controversies, but incredible how she goes about things. 75:26 So this snapshot of all this, and it's a melting pot of information. It's sort of going, you know, these are the things which we can contribute towards and help you and, you know, sort of blend it all in because that's something that you hope you can be positive on someone's career. 75:43 I think paying forward, Your luck to meet people, and maybe it's not luck, it's probably meant to happen, but what they told you and then being able to pay it forward to someone like Oscar is pretty important, especially at the young part, early parts of their career, because that's when they need it. Because you can say, well, here's a few guardrails for you, mate. But also, there's going to be a few bumps you've got to get over. Of course. And they probably don't need you to pat them on the back that much. Yeah. 76:08 Yeah. And of course, like the last part of your career, I think, you know, you've got your way right. Yeah. But obviously, as you say, the forks in the road, as I mean business or sport or whatever or people turning up and the back slappers or people turning up and you've got to be- There's plenty of them. 76:25 Yeah. 76:26 This is, you know, you've seen, or you've seen that, you know, where that. But it'd be magnified by a hundred times for you. Like, I mean, like, you know, you're on a global stage. You're on a, you're in a global sport, like truly a global sport. You're one of the most, you're in one of the most glamorous sports there are. I mean, the money gets thrown around and the whole thing is very extraordinary glamorous. We're talking about Monaco for a start, you know, Monaco Grand Prix. Yeah. 76:52 And everybody wants to backslap you. I mean, how do you work out who's cool and who's not cool? Like, who's genuine? I mean, what's that process like? 77:00 Yeah. Yeah. 77:02 You have to sort of hang on, relax. 77:06 Yeah, it takes, you know, judge of character obviously is a skill that's required, right, to work out who's with you on the journey, who's not with you on the journey. 77:16 I think that I've had the same PA for 25 years, mate. I've had the same people, pretty much the same people from day on. I'm with my first sponsor, the Allapages boys. Oh, really? I'm catching up with them. Yeah. So, that's, and I haven't answered your question, but that part of actually you're sort of, you stick to the people that, you know, you're just weeding out, I suppose, the ones that, you know, come and go. Yeah, yeah. And we all have the selection process, which is, we're all different on that, I think, on that phase. But I think that... 77:48 the consistency of actually finding the, the people that genuinely have your back and are keen for you to do, to do well all the time. Um, they're the, they're the gold nuggets. They're the ones that. Cause you can easily waste your time. 78:03 Of course. Chasing this person. Lots of high kickers. 78:05 Yeah, lots of high kickers. And people are, you know, or, you know, that wanting stuff or, you know, how, you know, where's the strategy piece or, you know, like all that. And so I think that that's, um, yeah, it's, and you've got to be pretty good at saying no. 78:17 Yeah, that's an important piece. 78:18 Yeah, saying no. Yeah, like, no. Yeah. Not for us or not for me or not, you know. 78:25 And I wouldn't be- That's a really important thing, Mark, saying no. 78:28 Saying no, yeah. 78:29 In a polite way. Yep. Because that's hard. Yeah, yeah. Because a lot of times we want to say yes to everyone. 78:33 Roll over, roll over, roll over, roll over, you know. Like, you know, especially like the Merc, this Merc decision I made, the Mercedes decision. Like, at that point, like, it was Anne and I, my wife and I said, like, you know, we can stay on the comfortable street or, you know. 78:44 getting a salad but this is F1's over it's over it's gone 78:51 Kenny Rogers song, mate, right? 78:52 You know, and hold them and fold them. I love that song. Yeah, it's a great song. But I'm like, you know, let's, let's, no, we're going to go all in. Let's just, you know, and done in the right way with like still done, but I want to, I want to get back off this comfortable ship. We're going to get back swimming again and go. So I think that, yeah, those, those tough decisions are along the way as well with the right people, you know, and then, yeah, they, they be cornered. 79:19 How important is it to have Anne in your corner all this time? Incredible. 79:24 Yeah. Very special woman. 79:26 Yeah, she... Crikey, we're nearly 30 years now. That's amazing. 79:31 Yeah. So, yeah. And I think that... What makes it work for that? 79:37 What's the one or two elements? I think that... 79:41 I mean, obviously, the loyalty is through the roof, obviously. We're there for each other. 79:45 I think that she... 79:50 It's down to chemistry. It's just chemistry. Best friends? It's just, yeah, of course, just chemistry. And I think that, you know, and dad, like growing up, it's like, I mean, drugs, I have an issue with your son, you know, lying to me. And also, if you muck around with your women, you know, deal with me. We've got problems. 80:07 So that stuff was, you know, also gambling. 80:11 But they're sacrosanct things. 80:12 Yeah. you know, fun, mate. Holy shit, we're going to have some fun. 80:16 We're going to have some fun along the way. But there's some non-negotiables. 80:19 Yeah, there is some non-negotiables and that is important to me, you know, with Annie. So I think that, you know, and of course, you know, we've been through, like any relationship, you go through some, you know, like some testy waters, but obviously the spine and the rigour that comes with, you know, being a partnership is solid as a rock. So, yeah, it's been great. And we've been through a lot, of course, our decision. And also blending that professional, I think it's very good, the professional boundaries to the personal boundaries. 80:47 That'd be tough. 80:48 Of course, in our hobbies and the things that we like and, you know, I love nature. I love the outdoors. I love all the stuff which she does as well and finding those things which – But she's driven. 80:56 You know, she's driven. She's a driven woman. Oh, really? Yeah, she's driven. 81:00 That's important. Yeah, of course. Yeah, she has drive and all those things which, you know, of course, rubs off on me as well. So, both of us in terms of, you know, sort of trying to – have that good teamwork of, you know, because often you are there and you close the door and it is the pair of you going, okay, what are we doing now? Like, shit, we've got some decisions to make or how are we going or what are we doing here or, you know, and you sort of, you pull the rein and off you go and here we are 30 years later because, you know, when I left to go over there, a lot of people said I'll be back in six months, you know, so, and I'm still not back now, you know, which is not, I'm not saying that I won't be back but in terms of like, it's worked out okay. 81:36 And you come back here much. Yeah. 81:38 About two and a half months a year. 81:40 Mainly mum and dad. You know, obviously they're an age now where I want to spend a bit more time with them, which I'm doing, which I enjoy. I mean, again, mate, I'm watching NRL, mate. I'm watching, you know, like whenever overseas, of course, I'm taking an interest in Australia. State of origin. I still will be, of course, great result this year, mate. 81:57 Unbelievable. Great result. How good. 81:58 They're the Queenslanders. Where are the Queenslanders? 82:00 Yeah, of course, they've disappeared all of a sudden. 82:03 I know, mate. Yeah, yeah. 82:04 And are you disappointed the Raiders aren't going to – I don't think you're – I know, mate. You're done. You're cooked for the year. 82:10 Yeah, I know, mate. I think the first part of the year, I mean, obviously, we just bled a lot of points there. 82:15 Had a lot of injuries too. Hudson Young recently, I think it was tough, losing him the last few rounds. I know Ricky was pretty disappointed after the last match. 82:24 Did you go to the matches if you were here? Would you go to a match? 82:27 No. 82:29 I'm very rarely here. I've never been to a state of origin. 82:32 Oh, really? Which is... 82:34 Pisses me off. 82:35 Yeah, well, you should come back next year. Yeah, mate. Yeah, I'd love to. Because Kingy, I know Kingy quite well. He's a new coach. He's our sister coach at Roosters. And if you want, like, tell me. I'll sort a bit of tick. Banner might want to go too. No, he's not a leagy. No, but he told me that he might become a Roosters supporter. I asked him. 82:52 Well, because he's at the same colour as friggin' St. Kilda, probably. That's why. 82:55 Yeah, I asked him and he said, yeah, maybe I could become a Roosters fan. Any Roosters, Eric Banner's going to become a Roosters supporter. I mean, they've got Russell Crowe at South, but... We will have Eric Banner. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's a good mate of yours, isn't he? 83:06 Oh, mate, well, this is the reason I'm on here. Yeah. With you today. 83:09 Yeah. 83:09 Because, you know, I said, because, mate, I don't, you know, sitting here talking about yourself, it's a bit, it's a bit over the top, isn't it? 83:16 Well, people want to hear about you, though, mate. 83:17 Yeah, I know. But, you know, trying to, it's, it is, it is that. But you've got, I mean, bone smoke, mate. It's just the style of an Eric. I said, did you enjoy it? He goes, yeah, I really enjoyed it. And, you know, Eric and I are really good mates. And, yeah, but look, mate, I've, Yeah. 83:32 Well, if you ever want to go to Orange, mate, just reach out, mate. I'm happy to. No, I'd love to go. I'll get some tickets for you and bring Ben along. We can actually teach him about rugby league. 83:41 Yeah. Because is AFL touch footy in here? Do you think it's touch footy or not? 83:45 AFL touch footy? I can't watch it. 83:48 No, I'm actually a Collingwood supporter. I hate to say it, but I'm a Collingwood. 83:50 Phenomenal athletes, mate. Look, both codes. 83:53 Yeah, totally. The AFL, the distance they run. Yeah, 20Ks a game. 83:57 Big engine. The field's such a big field isn't to run and just so yeah but no yep I'm watching it all mate so I'm of course I'm so patriotic still love Australia and whenever I can get back here with a small winder I get I love coming back here and checking it out mate mate Mark we're Australians love you mate you've been fantastic thanks very much everything appreciate it Mark yeah thanks mate cheers mate